Thursday, September 10, 2009

The healthcare speech and Joe Wilson

I didn't even bother watching it last night. I knew exactly what Obama was going to say so I didn't waste my time. I did, however, hear a lot of the commentary today. Most of it was based around Joe Wilson's little outburst. I've got mixed feelings about it. For years the left has been playing the same little games. This time, though, it seemed to me like the guy just had an emotional outburst. How many people sitting at home watching the speech jumped up and said the same thing when they saw the president utter those words? I would have at least rolled my eyes had I watched it. He later apologized for the outburst while maintaining his view that he didn't believe the president. Honestly, I went to his website to contribute after I heard about all of this. The guy obviously strongly opposes this whole thing for the right reasons. We need more people like that in congress. I was just going to float him $10-$20 but apparently a lot of people had the same idea.

Unfortunately, when I went to his site, there was a congressional stamp that said something along the lines of "This site is temporarily unavailable due to heavy traffic. Please come back shortly." After clicking on the "official site" all day just to see if it would eventually pop up I decided that it wasn't going to happen. I did manage to stumble upon his campaign site eventually and he's accepting contributions here. No I'm not from his state. I had never heard of the guy before today. I imagine that most American's hadn't. I hate to see a guy with that much passion for a cause that I happen to be on the same side of (listen to the speech if you haven't already...that was an emotional outburst not some planned attempt at a smear) get smashed into the mud.

Ideally and on paper free health care seems to be a GREAT thing for everyone who isn't rich and can't easily afford the best healthcare possible. Unfortunately, free anything creates infinite demand. Whether we like it or not there is still a cost. In the case of something like healthcare then we can't morally deny it to anyone. This is where the illegal immigrant thing that the above congressman had such a strong stance on comes in. How could anyone morally turn away anyone in need of health care? Well...if the person in need no longer contributes to society because they're too old or infirm then it's a lot easier to turn them away. This is where the "death panels" that everyone has heard of come into play. Unless the government decides to enslave doctors and nurses and force them to provide healthcare for nothing then there will be a cost. If the cost of saving a 70 year old costs more than saving 3 25 year olds then it doesn't make sense to save the 70 year old. That's how Ezekiel Emanuel thinks, anyway. He's Rahm Emanuel's know...the guy who said that you never want to waste a good crisis.


Nairb said...

Thanks for the link to Joe's site. I'm also going to make a contribution to him.

Hamster said...

Wison and his sons…all veterans… get great free government health care from the VA.
Yet, at the same time they rail against any form of public health care.
I call that hypocritical
If they really truely think government run health care is no good, they should give up their claim to VA benefits and go out and purchase private coverage like the rest of us suckers who haven’t worked for the government?
After all, as they claim, private healthcare is so much better.

I’m sick and tired of holier than thou politicians who drink at the free public trough while trying to keep the rest of us who need a sip of water…away

The Urban Survivalist said...

Seriously? You don't think that retired vets deserve health care? As for calling it "great" I think that you should talk to some of the vets that get it. As long as all you need is an annual flu shot and a physical then it's awesome. Just wait until something serious happens to you when you go to the VA...

The truth is that everyone in the US, illegal or not, has access to health care. You can't be turned away. There are also a lot of free clinics where anyone can walk in and get basic care. There are already government programs for people who legitimately can't work.

I'm not saying that there isn't a problem. There sure as hell isn't a crisis. The administration just likes to call everything that they have an interest in changing a crisis to try to scare people into letting them do something about it as quickly as possible. Then when people start to poke holes in their solutions or offer counter ideas they just get shot down or called racists.

Wildflower said...

So you just want the death panels for darker skinned illegal immigrants, right?

Illegal immigrants are in the country for one reason, to work (like the white immigrants from a century or so ago--memories are short). Why not force those hiring them and profiting from their labor to pay for their heath insurance?

That would be too humane and Christian for right wingers, I guess. Let 'em get sick and die while doing the jobs for low pay to increase big biz profits!

Health care is a crisis in this country--for anybody self employed with a pre-existing or chronic condition--they CANNOT get coverage at reasonable rates or at all. I know a LOT of hard working authors in this boat. Author's Guild is only able to provide coverage in the more civilized states. If you live in a Republican state, forget it. The insurance companies pay the lawmakers in those states to make sure there is no individual coverage available for people who say, have diabetes, to make more profit for themselves.

Gawd, right wingers are so manipulated and sheepish. Evil, awful, inherently selfish people, the worst America has to offer.

azurevirus said...

Right or wrong..apparently the dude has a pair..I loved the look on the queen pelosis face but I gathered it was one of these
How dare that peon!
Guards..sieze him!
OH r gonna end up in 300 sealed tuna cans
Execution tomm at dawn!
as far as what he got angry about..the illegals being covered..of course they will..they have been talking amnesty for them for yrs.if there isnt a loop hole in this health care plan to begin with.which apparently there is or he wouldnt have gone ballistic to begin with

The Urban Survivalist said...

Woah...hey..wildflower. Hold on there. I'm not saying that certain people shouldn't get health care. I'm just saying that top of the line healthcare is something that should be earned. I honestly don't care what the color of anyone's skin is. That has nothing to do with the argument.

I was listening to the radio just yesterday. A lady called in to a local talk show and described her situation. Her monthly health insurance bill was pretty ridiculous so she eventually decided to stop paying for it. A few months later she was diagnosed with cancer. The $300 a month that she was paying before paled in comparison to the $1300 a month that the evil insurance companies wanted now that she was diagnosed with a disease that could potentially cost millions of dollars to treat. So she found a free clinic, got treated there and is now cancer free.

Like I said before...there are already programs, grants and other options for people who can't afford their healthcare. It might take a little more effort than walking down to the local doctor's office and demanding that they be treated. Maybe the quality of care doesn't seem as high as the person's who's paying a lot for their's or who never gets sick. The President of the United States has a doctor following him around at all times. The members of Congress have some of the best health care available (that they're not willing to give up for the public option). What do you have to say about that? What will you have to say about that when government health care is passed, you walk into the doctor's office and they tell you that they can't afford to treat you because the "public option" is going broke and you're not contributing enough?

Anonymous said...

Gawd, left wingers are so manipulated and sheepish. Evil, awful, inherently selfish people, the worst America has to offer.


What a maroon. You spew the patent Left winger dogma without a thought for the real implications of your vile world view.

Libtards are all alike. As long as it makes you feel good it must be right.

If good people didn't have to suffer the same fate I would wish that you crazy leftwingers would get your way and have to live with the consequences.

Wildflower said...

What the retard right wingers most fear is already in place in other countries, namely Scandinavia.

What are the real implications of my world view?

In Scandinavia and other places public health care works. People are happy with the system there and don't mind paying the taxes because they get something back for them. Even the rich people are happy because they can buy extra private health insurance if they want and have private fancy facilities.

Since right wingers are so provincial and stupid, most have no idea what it's really like in other countries other than the isolated instances their big business paid-off pundits like Glenn Beck and Rush can dredge up. People in other countries, especially Europe, do raise big time hell when they're pissed--and they are horrified how health care is over HERE, not in their own countries.

We pay taxes and we will ALWAYS pay taxes. GW Bush gave the rich tax breaks, but he went ahead and taxed the hell out of the working poor. And they continued to support GW because somebody paid money and drugs to Rush to rile them up. Right now the bulk of our dollars go to the rich and the rulers. The retards are fighting any change tooth and nail.

It's the working people who are losing, and the stupid ones are manipulated right wingers working on the side of the rulers and the rich to keep themselves peasants and serfs.

They delude themselves that they are better than other folks, that they will get theirs one day. They're going to get theirs all right, hopefully directly from Jesus.

The myth that folks are lying around on welfare is mostly a lie. Stupid right wingers have no idea of how welfare really works other than what they're told and repeat over and over to each other. They believe everybody on welfare is dark and lazy when ALL states won't give a dime without proof of an active job search and benefits are limited to five years in a lifetime. And who is getting the bulk of the food stamps nowadays? The folks who corporations shipped their jobs overseas to make more profit--the working poor.

The stupidity and sheer nastiness of the right wing American stuns the entire world.

Anonymous, maroon is a color. Moron is a self explanatory word when you use it.

The Urban Survivalist said...

Seriously? Glenn Beck? He's being boycotted by big business. Do you honestly believe that they're sending him a check under the table while boycotting his program and pulling their sponsorships? Big business and huge corporations are PUSHING for health care. They're not paying off pundits to convince people to rise up against it.

It's not that we don't want free health care. As I've already stated, free health care is already available. You might have to go out of your way or jump through some hoops to get it but it's out there. People who EARN it should have better and easier access. The same goes for any other welfare. We should do just enough for the people at the bottom to ensure that they're uncomfortable and encouraged to do something to improve their situation. Unfortunately, the left wing moonbats want to remove all incentive to make something of yourself. To them the only incentive you should need is for the "good of society" or to make yourself feel better.

Show me where you can only get welfare for 5 years. There are so many different programs out there that you can stay on the dole indefinitely if you know how to work the system. Right now the people at the bottom are receiving more than they pay out in taxes. The Bush tax cuts did a lot to rejuvenate the economy after 9/11. You can blame the crash of the economy on the community reinvestment act from the Clinton administration and Fannie and Freddy. The government just HAD to do something to ensure that EVERYONE could get a piece of the American dream by owning a house whether they could afford it or not. As usual, government got involved and it created a huge bubble. That bubble still hasn't popped. The worse is yet to come.

Wildflower said...

Aug. 22, 2001 -- Five years ago today, a massive overhaul of the nation's welfare system was signed into law. "Welfare should be a second chance, not a way of life," then-President Bill Clinton said as he approved the bill. The Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act imposed a five-year lifetime limit on assistance to welfare recipients. That cap kicks in this year and next for tens of thousands of families. -- NPR

More info is available through the most cursory research

Anybody receiving welfare cash has to undergo a rigorous mandatory job search by FEDERAL LAW.

In Kansas, they turn in the jobs they've contacted each week (a minimum # of job applications weekly is required last time I heard) and these jobs are randomly checked to ensure the applications were actually turned in. Any noncompliance means immediate cessation of benefits.

The cash is only a few hundred dollars a month at most. You have to go through this process to get health care and child care too.

Housing subsidies are hard to come by nowadays. It is impossible to pay full rent anywhere just with the welfare cash. A lot of welfare beneficiaries are homeless.

Food stamps are exempt from the job search requirements. Basically, they aren't letting anybody starve, but since 1996, the concept of living off the dole has been a myth.

Welfare is NOT a free ride for anybody, but a minimal safety net to keep a woman and her child (men don't qualify) on her feet until she can find some type of job.

Once she finds a job, she can qualify to continue to receive health care LIMITED time, usually a year. In Kansas, the working poor can continue to qualify for child care and food stamp help.

The five year federal welfare is tracked across all states via the recipients SS# and other data in a computer network. This was written into law in 1996 by Bill Clinton.

You know the Prez that balanced the budget and really reformed welfare?

Yep, Clinton already solved the welfare problem and your paid-off-pundits are so effective in keeping you riled up against that nonexistent welfare queen threat, you don't even realize it.

Clinton was NOT a conservative, by the way. He pissed off the moonbats mightily with welfare reform. I supported him because I think people should work for what they get. Most progressives believe this, contrary to what the right wingers say.

I notice the right wing presidents talk about changing abortion law, being fiscally conservative, yada, yada but they never actually do anything but cut taxes for the rich--GWs tax cut for the wealthy did NOT stimulate our economy BTW, it made the biggest deficit in history and is one of the main reasons for our present depression.

Yep, I'd agree you'd best be ready for the worst. Unfortunately, you might deserve it.

Anonymous said...


If I had wanted to call you a moron, I know how to spell it.

The reason you supported Clinton was because you dreamed of having your turn under his desk, stain and all.

Yes, I probably deserve the crap I get from the leftists for not rising up and crushing you vile fetus killing vermin when you crawled out of your sewer.

I hope you have deep hole picked out, for when this is all over, most of your ilk will have been rooted out and dealt with, permanently.

No thats not a threat from me, I am wheelchair bound and can't get around well. But we real people can see thru your rainbow vision and many will no longer stand for your theft of their hard earned money to support those to lazy to work for it themselves.

You are always so quick to blame business. Who the hell do you think provides the jobs to begin with?

If a Corporation goes out of business because there is no longer enough profit to justify staying in the marketplace, who will pick up the unemployed and give them work? Goverment?

Or do you liberal moonbats have a secret employment agency that will fix everything?

You disgust me.

Discourse with your type is like stepping in shit. Unfortunate when it happens and nauseateing until you rid yourself of contact with it. And unless you clean your soles, the stench of that contact will follow you around for days.

Anonymous said...

Oh, and obviously you have no grounding in reality, Obama just created the biggest deficit with his trillion here and a trillion there spending plans.